Comments on: Atrocity and Epistemology: Cruel Claims in Troubled Times http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/06/atrocity-and-epistemology-cruel-claims-in-troubled-times/ Informed reflection on the events of the day Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.23 By: Scott http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/06/atrocity-and-epistemology-cruel-claims-in-troubled-times/comment-page-1/#comment-13390 Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:31:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=5914#comment-13390 That lies have previously been disseminated by governments, including our own, to drum up support for military ventures is a well documented fact, and in the case of the young woman discussed, we certainly do not know for sure whether her story is factual or not. Perhaps it is propaganda as Western governments attempt to find a human face for their war. The timing may certainly make it suspicious to some, but it certainly is plausible that she was actually raped, and due to the volume of journalists in Libya at the time, and volume of media attention in genereal, her story was picked up on in a flash. It would be an exercise in futility for us to try to determine culpability. However, I agree with Iris, that that would essentially be beside the point; whether the woman was raped or not should not be a factor in the justification of war on Libya. Should not be that is, but unfortunately public opinion could in fact turn on such an incident.

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By: Rafael http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/06/atrocity-and-epistemology-cruel-claims-in-troubled-times/comment-page-1/#comment-13355 Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:52:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=5914#comment-13355 Great post in many ways, as it highlights the idea that righteous credulity is often necessary to justify atrocities, as the war in Iraq also shows.

But in this particular case let me try to be suspicious of Qaddafi, for a moment. After all, his record of human rights violations, detention, torture and disappearances, is known to friends and foes and everyone in between. In a normal country, Iman al-Obeidi’s accusations would have granted an investigation sponsored by the government, third parties involved, human rights orgs included, medical and psychiatric examinations, DNA testing and so on. Let us imagine that her accusations are false. This would have been an opportunity for Qaddafi to show that he, and not her, is the actual victim. On the other hand, let us imagine that she was in fact raped and tortured. The investigation would indict the soldiers thus presenting an image of Qaddafi that that would counter the image of Qaddafi-the-monster used to justify the invasion. But his government refused to investigate, quite as a matter of course. After the allegations were made, they forcibly dragged and detained al-Obeidi (in front of the cameras), and then threatened her with jail. I have no evidence for or against her claims either. But it seems to me that it is more reasonable to be suspicious of Qaddafi, not because he is a bad guy (which he is), but because he is an intelligent guy who would not have wasted the opportunity to launch a widely publicized investigation, particularly if he thought that the accusations were false.

Do you remember the poor dissident Cuban “poet” tortured in Castro’s dungeons to the point of putting him on a wheel chair for the rest of his life? Savvy Castro launched a widely publicized investigation, eventually managing to film the “tortured poet” leaving his wheel chair to do a little calisthenics on the side, happily jumping up and down to stretch those legs. Castro won that one. The CIA’s special operations team lost. The operation backfired.

On the other hand, Qaddafi has used tortured routinely, as documented by AI, etc. Shocking as they are, Iman al-Obeidi’s allegations are not particularly surprising.

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By: Lisa L http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/06/atrocity-and-epistemology-cruel-claims-in-troubled-times/comment-page-1/#comment-13340 Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:55:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=5914#comment-13340 When I first heard Ms. Al-Obeidi’s story I was horrified. Having participated in The New School’s production of The Vagina Monologues this past April, stories of systematic rape perpetrated during times of war were still fresh in my memory. However, these were not merely “stories,” but rather testimony that had been gathered in interviews with real women by the play’s creator Eve Ensler. What is striking about Ms. Al-Obeidi’s case is that she brings the stories of atrocities of war that have been committed on women to the light of day, not a darkened theater.

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