Comments on: Who Won the Libyan war? http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/08/who-won-the-libyan-war/ Informed reflection on the events of the day Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.23 By: Anonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/08/who-won-the-libyan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-16216 Sat, 03 Sep 2011 16:27:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=7252#comment-16216 very interesting and informative. Given the conflicting stories of who exactly comprises the Libyan opposition, I cannot disagree with some involvement on our (and other countries) part— even if we are doing more behind the scenes than onstage, the distinction matters 1) because Libyans want this to be their revolution and 2) because Obama will never get popular support for any intervention– Bush squandered that support on a protracted losing battle. And I agree with Jeff, and supported the intervention on humanitarian and political grounds and agree with the administration that leaving a power vacuum would be tremendously dangerous—- the transition from prolonged autocratic rule to democracy often needs help. I do not see it as hegemonic intervention with a human face— I think we are trying to what we need to do effectively, to leave some (a lot) of it to other countries, but to deal with the reality that the countries in the Middle East wherein rebels (freedom fighters) win are not going to magically become democracies and if they do adhere to strict democratic principles, they may handily vote in another despot— so I see it as a mature and savvied response to the very real potential of Qadaffi all over again.

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By: Scott http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/08/who-won-the-libyan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-15969 Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:36:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=7252#comment-15969 According to the Washington Post, the US is currently conducting ‘secret wars’ in over 75 countries as part of its ‘global security strategy’. I find it interesting however that such ‘secrets’ are so readily known to the public. Apparently, it makes little difference whether this is known or not, so long as the specifics of these wars are kept hidden and the ‘wars’ themselves are conducted under auspices of anti-terrorism. This is just business as usual. (One specific that is known about them is their cost—Obama has recently requested a 5.7 percent increase for the ‘Special Operations’ budget, increasing its sum to $6.3 billion.)

And yes, the United States has “Special Operations Forces” on the ground in Libya, including CIA agents, a fact which was reported by the New York Times. Again, this aspect of the ‘secret war’ is not so secret. Similar coverage was given of US involvement in Pakistan, Yemen, and in 2008 US Special Operations Forces conducted a raid on Syria. Similar information can be found on other campaigns which extend into South America, including Columbia, Paraguay, and Peru, and on into Eastern Europe, South East Asia, and so on. So I think a fair question to ask is, ‘If so much is known about US ‘secret wars’, why exactly are they so often referred to as secret?’ (One reason might be that the use of ‘secret’ here might be quite cynical or might be meant to imply duplicitousness). I believe Dr. Challand’s article gives an important reason: ‘sanitized’ media coverage. The US White House, State Department, and Pentagon reveal to the public no more than they deem necessary, thus setting up an international theater, replete with backstage and front stage. (I believe this mechanism has elsewhere been too referred to as ‘perception management.’) In this case, it seems aimed at creating the perception that the victory is primarily belongs to the Libyan rebels– it is they who won Libya. We know the situation is much more complex than that, however, not by watching CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News.

If however, we turn to sources such as the Washington Post or NY Times, we learn a little more about US involvement in Libya, and elsewhere (indeed the very fact that they are involved in the first instance), and the nature of this involvement. And if we move beyond these sources, and there are many credible sources we can turn to, such as Alternet, Common Dreams, or, sometimes, The Nation, just to name a few (I would also include foreign sources such as Al Jazeera), we might learn more. If this is indeed an accurate pattern, it suggests to me that the further away a news source is from the epicenters of power, the more of the backstage they will be willing to reveal and strive to reveal. (However their relative lack of resources may hinder their ability to do this.) In any event, if we look beyond the ‘usual’ sources, we will more easily discover that ‘secret wars’ aren’t really so secret at all. But unlike more authoritarian countries, their does not seem to be much effort to muzzle the messengers. It is as if the US government is saying, “Yeah. So what. What are you going to do about it?”

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By: Benoit Challand http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/08/who-won-the-libyan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-15935 Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:12:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=7252#comment-15935 You bring up an important point, Jeffrey: it is difficult to know exactly how active the US, or other pro-interventionist countries, have been in helping the rebel’s offensive. So it is a classical example of the half-full, half-empty glass. However, I strongly believe that the US Administration is very active in the backstage, not just out of sheer interests, but out of fear that the situation gets out of control. International politics hate power vacuum.

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By: Jeffrey C. Goldfarb http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/08/who-won-the-libyan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-15926 Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:20:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=7252#comment-15926 This post highlights some unusual aspects of the foreign support for the Libyan struggle against a dictatorial regime. It’s not clear whether the apparently quiet almost invisible presence of the outside powers, and especially the US, is determined by the need to support the local legitimacy of the new authorities or is simply a cynical play by the outsiders to leverage their influence – hegemonic intervention with a more human face. I supported the intervention on humanitarian and political grounds and think that the attempt to emphasize Libyan leadership is a good thing.

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