Comments on: Lessons of the Wisconsin Uprising http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/ Informed reflection on the events of the day Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.23 By: Shenonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25707 Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:49:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25707 Thank you for your reply. I agree that this is not getting much traction in discussions anywhere! I think it is like having an infection that is being ignored and that if the underlying reasons are not discovered and dealt with, it could kill the host, but no one is watching or treating with antibiotics. I’ve always thought the fight in Wisconsin was seminal and would provide the model for the rest of the states where the workers have found themselves shoveled under by the Republican contingents who have pumped so much money into destroying them that it boggles the mind. So you and I are two, how can we increase that exponentially like to 10 million? Daunting isn’t it?

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By: Scott http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25705 Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:52:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25705 This is an issue that should be addressed, especially why so many union households voted for Walker. I tried to bring this up earlier. but the issue doesn’t seem to be resonating. This is unfortunate, because even though democracy is not in principle a spectator sport, social movements must also contend with the fact that there is an audience out there, sometimes largely unsympathetic; and if such a sympathy gap is not addressed, for also the talk of strategy and tactics, so-called “people power” will not translate into legislative or electoral change.

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By: Shenonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25699 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:51:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25699 The article was good on discussion about the unions but did not say why so many Wisconsinites voted Republican.

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By: Jkrinsky Ccny http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25689 Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:49:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25689 Thanks for a good discussion here, folks. A historical question off to the side. I believe that Karl Liebknecht’s last pamphlet was called “Trotzalledem” or “In spite of everything.” Could the moderate conservative Weber have been, in his always surprising way, have been eulogizing…even just a bit?

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By: Anonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25688 Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:10:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25688 Chad, I don’t think it’s an either-or proposition either. From my perspective, it’s fundamentally a matter of how elections fit into a broader conceptualization of the structural and institutional context in which we’re operating. I think it’s important to recognize that social movements, political parties, and states operate according to three very different logics and on three very different strategic terrains, that the three are therefore in constant tension, and that the first is the most important. This means that if social movements do not have sufficient strength and autonomy to relentlessly push their own agenda and thereby counterbalance the power of wealth and privilege, the population as a whole will easily become hostage to the logic of elections and thus have less influence on and through them. It’s paradoxically when social movements are less concerned about the fate of candidates and incumbents that the latter are more likely to deliver, regardless of their political stripe. (This is why Nixon was a far more progressive president than Obama, despite the fact that he was a far more despicable human being.) Obviously, elections, parties, and the institutional design of states matter enormously – since the more democratic they are, the more vulnerable they are to pressure from below; while the less democratic they are, the more susceptible they are to pressure from concentrated wealth and privilege. Moreover, the degree to which elections and states are democratic (or not) is no accident; it is a direct product of the balance of power in society.

In the US today, we are at a huge disadvantage on all three fronts. We have weak social movements and both our electoral system and our state institutions are highly undemocratic, and thus systematically favor our adversaries. In my opinion, this means that we have three strategic imperatives: (1) we need to build social power; (2) we need to democratize our electoral system; and (3) we need to democratize our state institutions. (Since the focus here is on elections, I won’t comment on 3). As everyone has said a million times, we need to get money out of elections. But we’ve also got to redesign the electoral system in order to lay the foundation for a genuine multi-party system, because nothing short of that will give voters the leverage they need to hold candidates and incumbents accountable. That leverage derives from the credible threat to cast one’s ballot for an alternative to the two dominant parties, other than simply not voting at all (the currently dominant choice in virtually every election). Making it easier to vote via reforms such as the Motor Voter act, and beating back voter ID laws, is important, but even if everyone were registered, most people would continue to abstain because elections give them such limited leverage over candidates and incumbents.

Neither of those reforms will be possible, however, if we don’t first build social movements that are willing and able to exercise power in such a way that social and political elites (of every stripe) conclude that they’d better reform the electoral system if they don’t want to experience more social and political instability. This is how democratization has always occurred. Operating primarily within the institutional constraints of the electoral system only serves to reinforce those constraints. We can’t abandon the electoral arena, but we’re not going to democratize it or have influence over it if we don’t remain truly independent – and operate primarily outside – of it. So to the degree that we engage elections, we have to do so from a position of autonomy and strength and pick our battles wisely, and as much as possible, on our terms; which means we can’t make them a priority over social movement building.

This brings me back to the very special circumstances of the Wisconsin recall. Not only was it an unnecessary election of choice on a terrain where we were at a huge disadvantage (analogous to challenging someone to a duel and then showing up unarmed), but it also diverted the focus of a very tenuous potential movement that had not yet gained its feet or consolidated a sense of its own autonomous power. For me, the most inspiring and promising aspect of the Uprising was that it turned the typical relationship between “leaders” and “followers” on its head, which I think explains much of the euphoria people experienced. But before that was really consolidated and channeled into a revitalization of the labor movement or the building of grassroots power at the community level, it was instead channeled into a traditional electoral process that looked up to, and handed the responsibility off to, someone else – a candidate. That candidate, moreover, embodied all the problems with the electoral and party systems, someone who had already lost to Walker 19 months earlier, who offered no alternative vision, and who in fact had used Walker’s legislation to squeeze public sector workers in Milwaukee. The recall was simply another exercise in “throwing the bum out,” a negative kind of motivational tactic that is hardly inspiring, and which had the added burdens of a lackluster candidate and the fact that a majority of voters regarded it as an illegitimate way of responding to Walker’s policies.

The recall was clearly a spontaneous, grassroots initiative that created a level of momentum that was hard to ignore or resist among opponents of the Walker agenda. But I think that speaks to a couple of things. One is that most people have no experience of movement politics and it’s therefore not part of their worldview, much less at the forefront of their minds when thinking “what next?” They are, however, familiar with elections, and it’s almost a knee-jerk inclination to resort to them as the only method of doing politics and the only expression of democracy. Elections present a very tangible and short-term goal, and are therefore more attractive to most people than the pain-staking, drawn-out and less well defined work of building social power. But part of this deeply ingrained habit is also the willingness to be led, rather than lead – the idea that we can solve most of our problems simply by getting rid of the “bad guy” and replacing him with a “good guy.” This is why, even when we “win,” we typically sit back and watch and only get mobilized again, if at all, until the next election rolls around.

My hope is that we learn from this defeat by coming to a better understanding of the proper place of elections, which will continue to be an arena of defeat if we don’t make building social power our first priority. If we learn that lesson, I think we will have made huge strides, and the recall will turn out to have been an enormous opportunity. My fear is that most people, if they haven’t joined the ranks of the disillusioned, will instead focus on the next election as the answer to “what next?”.

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By: Chad Alan Goldberg http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25687 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:12:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25687 Myra, I agree with you, of course, about the importance of interpretation and framing (“symbolic work,” as I called it in my post). Equally important, your comment highlights the importance of the media in providing individuals with definitions of situations on the basis of which they mobilize. Jeff Goldfarb’s post, to which I was partly responding, and his work in general also highlight the importance of these aspects. This is an important front for any struggle for democracy and social justice; it’s beyond the scope of my blog post and deserves one of its own.

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By: Chad Alan Goldberg http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25686 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:48:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25686 Patrick, this is a thoughtful comment, and I agree with some of what you’ve said. However, I’m not entirely sure where you come down in the end. At the beginning of the comment, you distance yourself from what you rightly describe as the extreme position of abandoning elections. But at the end, you conclude that “the main lesson is to refrain from being so easily enticed into the electoral arena, and instead to focus our efforts on building powerful social movements that do not place a priority on getting candidates elected.” That sounds to me like an abandonment of electoral politics. Perhaps you merely mean to suggest that progressives shouldn’t focus *exclusively* on electoral politics. In that case, we’re agreed; I think elections vs. protest is a false choice.

I don’t doubt that the electoral arena is an infertile terrain on which to fight for social and economic justice. Thanks to Republican initiatives, it’s becoming more so. But the other terrain doesn’t look so fertile either. It’s not just the electoral arena that favors the privileged. That’s why disruptive protest is so rare and why it so often fails when it does happen. That doesn’t mean people should abandon protest or movement building. But neither should they give up on electoral politics. Again, I think it’s a false choice. Rather than cede the electoral arena as hopeless terrain, we must struggle to reshape it and, through institutional changes, make it more rather than less even.

Let me add that your comment usefully highlights the crucial question of how movements gain leverage and succeed in accomplishing at least some of their goals. That, it seems to me, is the crux of a lot of the recent debate. Piven and Cloward had a theory, and it was a theory in which electoral politics did play a role. (Indeed, if they thought electoral politics was unimportant or hopeless, they wouldn’t have been involved in promoting the 1993 Motor Voter Act.) Now they might be wrong, or their theory might need revision, but I worry that some of the people who are advocating protest *instead* of elections lack any theory at all about how protest will get them what they want. Of course, a person who is committed to an ethic of ultimate ends doesn’t need a theory; she need only say, “Here I stand; I can do no other.” Like Luther, she does what she thinks is right and leaves the results with the Lord. But then protest is no longer a means; it has only exemplary value.

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By: Chad Alan Goldberg http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25685 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:37:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25685 In Doug Henwood’s original post there was an extra l (“channelling”). The spelling was apparently corrected when my post was published on Deliberately Considered but without removing the “sic.”

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By: Petrdann http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25681 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:33:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25681 Why are we limited into thinking a general strike was the only option available to advance the movement in feb/mar 2011? Once walker closed down the capitol, the people’s capitol could have been established by taking over bascom hall on the campus right down state street. After all at that time there were schisms developing among the various police forces (capitol police, county sheriffs, city of madison police, state troopers etc.). Nuanced work slowdowns, wildcats, student walk-outs/strikes, attempts to reach out to recipients of state services in solidarity, and on and on were ripe for the taking! There were real opportunities to ‘f” up the continuity of governance to where a demand for walker’s removal/resignation could have developed. Instead we were demobilized with the hero worship of the fab 14 and the onset of the whole recall/election mantra!

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By: easytolo http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2012/06/lessons-of-the-wisconsin-uprising/comment-page-1/#comment-25677 Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:36:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=13689#comment-25677 Why is there a [sic] after ‘channeling’? That is the correct US spelling.

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