Comments on: Republicans, Revolutionaries and the Human Comedy http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/ Informed reflection on the events of the day Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.23 By: Tim http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20653 Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:18:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20653 I meant Norquist of course (not Blomqvist). That guy is pulling strings so far in the back, so I can’t even get the name right 😉

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By: Jeffrey C. Goldfarb http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20616 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:40:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20616 I agree with Tim’s analysis of the left, right and center, although perhaps there is a slight nuance between us, concerning the radical left. Big demands yes. But they have to make sense to the people for whom we claim to speak. Obama surely could use a good hard push from the left, but the push can’t alienate the public. It has to bring them along. I am not sure about the Blank Panthers. I think they were pretty inconsequential. But Malcolm X was important. He was quite radical, but he made sense, as he made people uncomfortable. I have written about this in my book Civility and Subversion. But it’s a judgment call no doubt.

I judge today’s self styled anarchists as people pretending in a academic ghetto almost completely irrelevant if they don’t connect with the wider public. They don’t push or lead Obama, Democrats, human rights activists (gays, lesbians, transgendered, people of color). They turn them off.

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By: Tim http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20608 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:13:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20608 In honor of the comic/tragic nature of this post. I recently saw a debate on Fox News (yes, I switch there, because it is as funny, but less substantial than Comedy Central). The commentators were really debating that now is the time to put the most right and radical candidate forward, because now is the time to go for it all! It is remarkable, how assessments of situations differ. I really hope they put Cain or Gingrich forward (as much as I doubt it), because Obama would win that election with a landslide. The Republicans are caught in the relation conservative center and radical right. I do think though that radical ideas can support the formation of a substantial center, but the radical right is comically tragic.

On the left we see a similar struggle. This is where OWS is important, I agree here with Jeff, but I would read the movement more radical. Push left, as far as we can, without losing the imagination of the public. Jeff thinks that Obama tries to move the center to the left (I agree again), but quite honestly, it seems like a dead-end road. We have to go further, mobilize and educate enough people on the left and for the left, to have a real voice left of centrist Obama (I am not speaking of revolutionary/anarchist action, but a core understanding and commitment of social-democratic politics that is missing). Only then Obama and the democrats will do their job even against Republican opposition, which does not just entail shooting and bombing terrorists overseas.

In this context, I do disagree with the assumption that a presence of the radical left is necessarily only destructive as Jeff fears. The problem is that a movement needs a strong commitment and broad base to actually gain something from the radical critique, because the movement as mass movement also needs to be able to resist at the same time the militant tendencies of its radical elements. I do not think OWS is there yet, it is pretty fragile, so their is a problem, that Jeff rightfully describes. But there is something to be said about the radical element in mass movements. What would the Civil Rights movement have been without its Black Panthers, where would the 68 movements have gone without its radical voices (sorry, I do only now the German example Rudi Dutschke)?

I understand, that I am more hopeful for these substantial tendencies on the left, while I dismiss them on the right. Both are caught in a similar struggle, but come on, Cain? On the other hand, Cain or Gingrich are not the ideological core of the radical right, that is defined by Blomqvist, Cheney and Rove. Maybe I live in la-la-land and Obama could actually lose against Cain and Gingrich, these comical caricatures of the radical right. Then goodbye and goodnight America.

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By: Anonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20565 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:11:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20565 I think we are in basic agreement though that things are running afoul right now, and I don’t see the current bunch in Washington addressing it for the reasons I stated above. They are in bed with big corporations that are gaming the system and using our tax dollars to do it. In the end, that’s what is so appealing about someone like Cain; call it a leap of faith on my part that maybe he can make a difference. When I look at the others, I pretty certain they won’t.

And unfortunately, we are running out of money which, just like with individuals, severly limits choices.

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By: Jeffrey Goldfarb http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20562 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:58:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20562 Cain doesn’t appear to know much about the world beyond his immediate experience and slogans. I am horrified that he is considered a serious candidate. Yes crony capitalism is a problem. But it is linked with uncontrolled banking, corporations which work against regulations that protect the environment, the consumer and even the average investor. And corporations that work to have tax policies that soak the poor and feed the rich. Yes, we do disagree, but I thank you for your serious response to my piece.

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By: Anonymous http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2011/11/republicans-revolutionaries-and-the-human-comedy/comment-page-1/#comment-20560 Tue, 22 Nov 2011 23:42:00 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=9827#comment-20560 Control over corporate excesses?

Most corporations and business just plug along trying to make a profit by making and selling things people want. That’s hardly a threat to society; and in fact, it is how we create wealth that everybody can enjoy in this country.

You ignore the real excess which is the crony capitalism practiced by the permanent political class entrenched in Washington. Nothing is ever going to happen because these “leaders” and their corporate friends all like business the way it is. They’re making very good money feeding at the public trough.

The fault lies in both political parties, not just the Republicans. As to the candidates in the primary, there are some like Newt and Romney that would change little except perhaps re-arranging the deck chairs. The other one you name, Herman Cain, may be weak in your eyes, but if he were elected, things would certainly change. You and I would disagree on whether that change would be good or bad.

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